Every time that I write a post, or create a video, on “How I Chink a Log Cabin” my inbox will quickly fill-up with emails telling me about how wrong I am in using cement for chinking, and then go on to inform me of the wonders of synthetic chinking (it seems there is only one… it moves).
I thought that I might create a video pointing out how well cement chinking works (and looks)… and, point out some of the downsides in using synthetic chinking products.
I further thought that perhaps if I didn’t use any of the brand names of those “goopy products”… and, if I made my presentation a bit on the fun side… that all those “faux cement enthusiasts” wouldn’t get all uptight about my favorite material for chinking.
Can’t we all just get along? 🙂
Now as you watch this episode you will quickly agree discover that I am no comedian… but I must admit that I did have a good time making this video (as you will plainly see in the last minute of the video 🙂 Hey, it is ok to talk about cabins and have a good time doing it, don’t you agree?
Even though this video is lighthearted there are some really good points made in it… One is that you should seriously consider what material you will use when it comes time to chink your log cabin… keep in mind that I’m not trying to sell you anything here on HandmadeHouses.com. We don’t sell cement! I’m just passing on to you my experience with chinking log cabins over the course of decades and in seeing (and often re-chinking) the work of hundreds of others that was installed incorrectly.
With regard to synthetic chinking… many of it’s problems are revealed before it is ever applied to a log cabin…
1. It’s expensive… often ten times as much, or more.
and…
2. It looks fake… just like those plastic rocks that some folks will put in their yards.
Would you buy a plastic rock if it cost ten times as much as a real one?
I didn’t think so.
I just don’t get the desire to purchase something that tries to look like something else… whether it is plastic rocks, vinyl siding, or tofu bacon… if one builds a house of wood and of stone… a home that has been lovingly hand-crafted of such wonderful natural materials as these… why would anyone then coat about a fourth of their home in plastic?
And then, there is the durability issue…
My goal in building a home has always been to build one that will last for centuries…. at minimum… I believe that any house should be in great shape once a mortgage is paid off… and not be a home in need of major repairs.
If a person has to make mortgage payments for a large part of their life, then at that wonderful moment when they are finally free of that burden they should have something to be proud of… and durable.
It seems that so many modern building products are designed to fail… Take for instance the number-one form of roofing here in the US… asphalt shingles. It comes with a 20-year guarantee… whereas a copper roof should last 150 years. One roof will need to be replaced once it’s finally paid for, the other will be problem-free for our grandchildren… and their grandchildren.
So, when it comes time to chink our cabins… consider how long will cement last? what has your experience been with this product?
In many of my videos I show cabins that I chinked 30+ years ago. In every case it’s holding up, and looking good, with no problems. (I’ve never seen synthetic chinking of the same age on any cabin).
If you haven’t noticed there is an imbalance in information with regard to chinking choices…
The synthetic chinking industry is full of advertising brochures and a sales-force to promote their product…
The cement industry on the other has little interest in telling people that they ought to chink log cabins with their product. The use of cement for chinking is minuscule in comparison to the other uses of cement. Those in this industry are likely unaware of this particular use of their product.
It seems that so many basic “down-home” things in life are overlooked… like cement chinking… because so few step forward to share their knowledge and experience.
My grandmother (bless her soul) would dry her beans by hanging them on a string. My wife does hers using a high-dollar dehydrator… one that I see advertised in many magazines. The string industry just doesn’t do as good of job with marketing their string to folks who like to put away a little food for the winter. lol… likely for the same reason the cement industry isn’t pouring thousands into advertising in the small log-chinking market.
Now to be fair there are some advantages I see to synthetic chinking, but I feel overall these products pale in comparison to “plain old cement”…. here are a few that I can think of…
1) A person can open the bucket and go to work applying it… no mixing needed. (and they get a nice bucket when they are done)… so there is less physical work involved.
2) Synthetic chinking can be considered “wide caulking”. In the building trade the work of a sloppy carpenter can be made functional and more attractive with the aid of a good painter and his caulk gun. Cement makes excellent chinking, but it is not a caulking compound to fill vertical gaps in trim-work… so less care and skill are required when building a log home if we know gaps and holes from hastily done work will be covered over with GoopChink.
3) Contractors and log cabin supply companies earn their living by marking up the price of their materials to the homeowner. It’s a common business practice… 15% of $300 worth of cement is $45…. 15% of $3000 of GoopChink is $450 … so, a much bigger paycheck can be had at the end of the week.
4) In the first few years after synthetic chinking has been applied, while it is fresh, new, and sticky… while the home is under warranty… Goop Chink can be applied improperly and still do it’s job of keeping water out (but only for a while… eventually there will be problems). Whereas improperly installed cement chinking will let you know it was done wrong within days…. so there is less of a chance of receiving a call to come fix something during that mandatory one-year warranty that most home-builders must provide if synthetic chinking is used. Score one for the contractor!
Now am I saying those who use synthetic chinking are bad people and…
1) are trying to do less work?
2) or, are less skilled?
3) or, want to make more money?
4) or, don’t want to do free warranty work for clients a few months after the project ends?
Well, of course not… not at all… but… we do have to acknowledge that the motives to do so are there.
Again, let me repeat… there are a few log builders out there that I highly respect… one’s that use synthetic chinking… exactly why they use it… I don’t know.
For me though, in choosing between the two options, it all comes down to the fact that on each home that I build I try to do my best to build that home as well as I can…
I keep in mind two things…
I ask myself first… what is the most attractive option that I can use?
I like things to be attractive… it’s a weakness of mine… no matter what… for instance, I married the prettiest girl that I had ever seen. 🙂
Cement chinking looks great, plastic chinking (that is supposed to look like cement) does not.
And secondly…. what is proven to be the most durable and long lasting? … (that pretty girl I married has only gotten better… and durable? well… 34 years later she still puts up with me. 🙂
Synthetic chinking has been around for well over 30 years now… has anyone ever seen an image of a log cabin with 30 year old synthetic chinking on it? I haven’t. If you have one please send it to me.
To wrap all this up… if I get the same answer to both of these questions… attractive? and, proven durable?… then I’ve likely found what I will go with… other considerations often seem minor in comparison.
Originally posted 2017-07-16 13:31:05.
a lot to read and no answer to the subject matter…what is the best chinking formula???
I’ve been led to type S quikrete. Some say use it straight, some say mix with 2 parts sand, or 3 parts sand. What is acceptable “sand”….no one seems to know.
So, Noah, what is the stuff you use that can last for such a long time? Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge with us! Lee
I would not use quikrete… although I think any Portland cement is just fine.
I have seen many folks fuss with the cement/sand ratio, and some will add extra lime to the mixture… but I can’t say that I’ve ever noticed any difference.
I choose to use a pre-dyed cement. I find that standard grey cement looks far too much like an urban sidewalk when applied. And, I know that I’m much more likely to get a consistent pleasing color with pre-dyed mixes… and…. I imagine a higher grade of cement. I follow the manufacturers recommendation on sand to cement ratio.
The sand that you use just needs to be consistent… whatever kind you start with, stick with it… and, you need to use fine sand… absolutely no pebbles in it.
I spend nearly three hours going step-by-step through the chinking process in the Log Cabin Academy. Done right, chinking will preserve your logs and will never need maintenance. Poorly installed chinking is the number one request that I have gotten for my services throughout my career (it cost three times as much to redo a poorly done chink job as it does to do it right the first time… and is no fun to do).
I hope this helps and answers your question!
Noah
Have a look at the NPS Technical Preservation Services – The Briefs are excellent documents that conservation professionals and architects may reference – here is a portion of #26 “The Preservation and Repair of Historic Log Buildings”:
“The horizontal spaces or joints between logs are usually filled with a combination of materials that together is known as “chinking” and “daubing.” Chinking and daubing completed the exterior walls of the log pen by sealing them against driving wind and snow, helping them to shed rain, and blocking the entry of vermin. In addition, chinking and daubing could compensate for a minimal amount of hewing and save time if immediate shelter was needed. Not all types of log buildings were chinked. Corncribs, and sometimes portions of barns where ventilation was needed were not chinked. While more typical of Swedish or Finnish techniques, and not as common in American log construction, tight-fitting plank-hewn or scribed-fit round logs have little or no need for chinking and daubing.
A variety of materials were used for chinking and daubing, including whatever was most conveniently at hand. Generally though, it is a three-part system applied in several steps. The chinking consists of two parts: first, a dry, bulky, rigid blocking, such as wood slabs or stones is inserted into the joint, followed by a soft packing filler such as oakum, moss, clay, or dried animal dung. Daubing, which completes the system, is the outer wet-troweled finish layer of varying composition, but often consisting of a mixture of clay and lime or other locally available materials. Instead of daubing, carefully fitted quarter poles or narrow wood strips were sometimes nailed lengthwise across the log joints.
Chinking, especially the daubing, is the least durable part of a log building. It is susceptible to cracking as a result of freeze-thaw action, structural settlement, drying of the logs, and a thermal expansion-contraction rate that differs from that of the logs. Seasonal deterioration of chinking necessitates continual inspection and regular patching or replacement.”
In Alberta, I’ve spec’d 1/3 clay, 1/3 sand (coarse), and 1/3 lime for chinking. Arguably, Portland Cement based chinking is too hard and does not breathe or allow much moisture to move through it. The logs and chinking can also all be coated with a lime wash afterwards as well.
Thanks for sharing!
It is a well written piece in which there is nothing that I can find that I disagree with. I have encountered the mixture you spec on many old cabins… I have no way of knowing how old these lime chink joints are (likely decades) but they tend to be pretty well worn out and behind wood siding… crumbling, cracking, and with many sections missing or in the process of falling out. I have offered on multiple occasions to replace the chinking with the original formula but so far not a single client has ever taken me up on the offer.
I have no issue whatsoever with those who choose to use a lime based chinking… but from my observations it does not last nearly as long as cement… and it is much more prone to allowing water into the area between logs… and it does tend to wash down the surface of logs as it slowly erodes with exposure to rain.
I must admit that I have a hard time understanding why cement being “too hard”… or “not breathing” would be a bad thing. But these are both points that have been brought up before but never explained to a degree that I could appreciate or understand.
To me “too hard” would another way of saying… too strong… or too durable.
And “not breathing” to me would be “water resistant”… As in rain hitting it and running off instead of allowing it to penetrate. Typically when I apply a finished layer of cement in a chink joint it is only a quarter-to-a-half-inch thick layer. A cup or bowl made of cement and left without a sealer would likely hold water for an hour or two… but would eventually leak dry.
I’d really like to one day create a log building where I will chink it with lime… with cement… and with plastic chinking… a place where it can be monitored for decades to come to see which product best protected the logs and maintained it’s beauty.
I feel a kindred connection with those who choose to use lime or other earthy mixtures. I don’t think that cement is too far removed from these formulas.
Great conversation here.
To my understanding, “too hard” implies that the substance (here, portland cement) has little plasticity and, though impermeable to water, is nonetheless subject to cracking (from freeze/thaw cycles, vibrations…), thus creating openings for water to enter a surface and penetrate a wall.
“Not breathing” means that, once in such a wall, the material is not able to evaporate out the moisture it has absorbed through its cracks. This leads to a build-up of moisture that, when still present at the next freeze/thaw, leads to more cracking and, eventually, a failing wall.
While it’s true that a lime mix will require more regular maintenance, it won’t outright crack and fail, so can last centuries. On the other hand, no amount of maintenance can change the inherent hardness and lack of breath-ability of portland cement so it will, eventually, crack and fail.
Here are some references with more information:
http://brickandlime.com/lime-vs-portland-cement/
http://www.preservationworks.us/more-about-lime-mortar.html
http://www.chapelgatehome.uk/our-blog
All I can do is speak from experience and observation…
I have seen hundreds of log cabins which were chinked with a lime based mortar and all of them had failed… cracked, crumbled, and fallen out. Some were a few years old… but most were decades old. On the positive side lime chinking itself is attractive, natural, inexpensive, does not harm the logs, and is not a synthetic goop application.
I have chinked hundreds of cabins with cement (and a couple with lime). I’ve never seen a single failure of the cement chinking, not one, some being over 40 years old. I’ve seen a few hairline cracks in cement chinking but none that water could be forced through. I’ve seen cement get wet, and I’ve seen it dry out. I have also removed my fair share of chinking (when salvaging a cabin, or when a customer wants to add an electric line in a wall, or when an accident has occurred)… I’ve never encountered any moisture behind a properly installed lime chinking, or with cement chinking, but I have with synthetic chinking (perhaps this is due to the stickiness of these polymer materials?)
And I agree with you! A great conversation and I do appreciate your input.
Someone really needs to put together a test cabin… one where the varying types of chinking are installed… likely it will be the next generation that will reap the rewards of such a project as I know from experience that cement chinking will far outlast my lifetime.
Noah
I have no issue whatsoever in those who choose to use lime to chink their cabins… it’s pleasant stuff to work with… I have often offered this application option to my clients (whereas I refuse to work with synthetic products)… When I share my experiences and observations with these clients the vast majority choose cement… and none have ever regretted it.
James, those NPS briefs are a great resource!
Thanks so much for sharing that!
I have a couple of questions on using cement mixes. I have a full saddle notched log home. Built it 25 years ago and used permachink. I have a few gaps was was considering freshening it up with another layer.
Can I use a cement mix and what is the best formula/recipe? Can this go over the existing chinking? What is the best/most efficient application method given that I am filling round edge gaps.
Hi David,
I don’t work with round logs, nor with permachink… so I’m afraid I have no advice to offer you on how to best address you gaps. Sorry.
Noah
most likley if you deleted the sand the pure cement would crack . how about using sanded floor grout and a grout bag
Interesting thread, I had the same hesitation reading (watching) your insistance on cement based clinking, but you sum it up completely “because it works”.
I have used lime based mortars (either lime/white cement/sand or lime/rough plaster/sand) for exterior work,on stone or brick structures. If there is no water infiltration between the substrate and the mortar, I would give a 40 to 60 year lifespan, depending on exposition. Many of Paris’ façades are lime/plaster based, many over 150 years old.
I agree that a good 40 year in situation test is probably the only way to get to the bottom of this.
On sand, there are enormous structural diiferences in using different sands. Angular sand (crushed) will bond much better than rounded (ex. river) sand. Seemingly from the “stacking”. Angular sand is also easier to work with, Once again, if it works…
Thanks for the great site
Very interesting, I am building a log cabin, in the south coast of England, what is the best mix, using Douglas Fir, sawn into 12″ x 6″ with a convex and concave joint, the joint is 1.5″ high goes in 1″, when would you apply? straight away or leave for a few months to dry out?
I have been looking at permachink, but very expensive to get it here.
your thoughts will be much appreciated
Hi Dave… Congratulations on building your cabin!… your method of log construction is one in which I have no experience so I am afraid I can’t offer any advice. Sorry!
Hello Noah.
I’m wondering if you have ever chinked a new build using green or semi green logs.? Or would you typically wait a period of time for the logs to shrink and settle?
I love your videos and I’m looking forward to your advice.
Hi Jason, just this last year I built a tiny cabin from green logs and chinked it within a few months of those logs having leaves on them. I have to admit that I’m a bit surprised that I haven’t had any problems whatsoever. Do I recommend doing this? nope. It is best to wait as long as one can to let the logs thoroughly dry before chinking… but if there is no other option… it can work out well. Just cut those logs in the winter… give it as long as you can to season!
I’m new to this debate, and presently occupied in chinking and daubing… chinking and daubing, chinking and daub… well, you all know what I mean. It’s endless! Building a very small ( 6m x 3m) log cabin here in the Granite Belt of Southern Queensland, Australia, has been an epic adventure for me. This has been a solo project and a continuation of the exploration of the old ways of building a small shelter. I am a diminuitive, extremely determined 51 year old woman who does it all on her own on the premise that if I have to ask for help, I probably should be living somewhere else instead of in a pristine wilderness. So I’ve cut down, debarked and shifted every one of the 100 logs that the cabin has gobbled up. I have to say this has been the most challenging build I’ve ever attempted and I’m relieved not to be felling and hauling any more of 4.6-6m logs uphill from up to a km away… on a furniture trolley! The cabin is deliberately sited where vehicles cannot go high up on a granite boulder strewn ledge ledge. I’ve followed in the footsteps of the old timers chinking with pieces of wood, native grass, even old rope I found on the pathway up to the cabin. I’m daubing with mud, granite derived, It’s excellent stuff, approximately 15-18% clay content, that comes from the dam about 200 m downhill from the cabin. It barely cracks and has a cementitious hardness when set. I only add a little sawdust and squish it into the mud as a binder. Then I throw globs of it into the chinked gap and smooth it by hand and with a wet paint brush. When it is dry I whitewash it with a solution of hydrated lime and water that I keep in a bucket for all the paint jobs that require it. I use it on the walls of my house too. It’s a non-toxic, cheap, breathable, stunning finish and can be coloured with paint dyes or natural oxide colours. I make a dark coloured solution of water, rusty nails, gum leaves and homemade vinegar to spray or brush onto the logs as a preservative stain.
I am SO impressed!
If you ever care to share images I would love to see them!
I am restoring an old 160 year red pine log home, the space between the logs have been filled with closed cell spray foam and the logs are able to breath on both sides.. On the interior of the home I would like to cover the spray foam with white colored chinking. I am looking for a formula or recipe to create white chinking.
There are suppliers out there that provide dyes for cement… and there are pre-dyed cement mixes… check with your local masonry supply outlet for what they offer… you shouldn’t have any problem finding what you are looking for.
Noah,
This summer(2019) I will be building a cabin extremely remote in the Yukon of Canada. Would a cement chink be applicable for this cabin, considering the extreme cold?
I can’t speak from experience… it does get cold here in Virginia, but obviously not as cold as you get… I can’t see why it wouldn’t, or what product might be better. Sorry I can’t be of more help! Noah
Hi Noah,
We are currently refinishing the inside chinking on a 1800s square cut log cabin
I have found Quikrete sand and topping mix has a 3 to 1 sand to Portland cement formula and is recommended for 1/4″ to 2″ thickness. Do you think this is ok or should we be added something to the mix ie lime?
Thank you,
Quinn
Hi Quinn,
I wouldn’t recommend using quickcrete for chinking.
It’s fine for less refined work, but for all the effort that goes into chinking (and the big hassle of having to remove failed chinking and do it again) I would choose to mix my own ingredients from scratch.
A lot of folks are big proponents on adding lime (i’ve got no issue with those who do, but I’ve never seen any benefit to doing it, and, I often work with dyed cements and lime would mess with colors big time.
Hope this helps.
Noah
We chinked our log cabin with the mortar mixture, as the logs have continued to dry, the mortar has separated from the logs in places. How do I repair these gaps and cracks. Can a thin mixture be “painted” in the gaps?
Donnie… I don’t advise chinking at all when the logs are green and still seasoning… but I did chink a few chink joints on a little cabin I built out of green logs a couple of years ago and am a bit surprised at how perfect they still are. It’s kind of odd but a lot of times only the logs will shrink and the gaps between them stays about the same creating little effect on the chinking. If you would, maybe send me a couple of photos of your chinking and I’ll let you know what I would do… noah@handmadehouses.com There are a few tricks of the trades that I have used over the years Noah
I have a western hemlock 6×12 square hewned log home. I chinked the exterior and the first-floor interior with permachink about 10 years ago (I didn’t know any better). It has held up wonderfully but I’m now ready to chink the upstairs interior (about 1400sf) and I’d like to use cement chinking.
The chinking gap is 3 1/2 inches and backed with styrofoam. What is the recipe you recommend, do I need to install some type of lathe and how do I get the color to come close to mortar white? Do I have to use white portland?
Thank you for your help.
I use diamond mesh lathing as a backer for my chinking.
I prefer to use a pre-dyed mortar and I just mix it to manufacturers specs.
Hope this helps!